characters hussie hated, and characters hussie loved

@fritz I'd be interested to hear more examples of these kind of characters, then.

I think Tavros is an interesting case because Hussie's commentary does totally play up the idea that we're all supposed to hate him and that the story constantly uses Vriska as a means to punish him for being stupid and annoying. I don't think that running gag (which I frankly found more annoying than funny when reading with commentary) NECESSARILY reflects how he was really written in the comic itself, but I suppose it reveals that Hussie can absolutely be inclined toward treating a character like that in an attempt to be funny.

But then I also think the story shows that Hussie doesn't think of Tavros as totally useless when it consciously uses Jake English as a kind of recycling bin for the bits of Tavros that were interesting, and sort of 'vindicates' the Page archetype in the process. And Jake himself is an interesting case in your point, because I can totally see how he might become more interesting and not less over time; but I think when we see it in Jake it's more clear that this is on purpose, and that Homestuck is interested in not just arcs that reveal a character's hidden beauty and strength, but also arcs that reveal how deeply flawed a character is instead. And taking those flaws to the extreme is one of my favourite parts of the recent developments in Beyond Canon! But I'm just spitballing here; I'm interested to hear more about your position on this, which isn't one I've really seen or heard a lot about before.

hussie has been any pronouns transgender for some time now but people solely use he/him because they're being transmisogynist

@jakemorph

I think another example of a character Hussie seems to dislike is Sollux. This is less apparent because Sollux isn't written as incompetent like Gamzee is later on. He is written pretty well, but Hussie doesn't use him. His whole double dream selfs/basically double everything, his biotech aesthetic, and coding knowledge could've been utilized in way more ways than it was in the comic, but it seemed like Andrew Hussie simply didnt care about his character enough to use Sollux to his full extent.

other characters are: ARquiussprite (to me, his character didn't seem like anything more than a gag), Gamzee (Murderstuck was very interesting, but after he got his fuckass codpiece and everything he did was told through Terezi, I started to genuinely hate him), and davesprite (he didn't need to be interesting cause he was just a random doomed timeline Dave, but he didn't seem like Dave, he felt like a version of Dave that was way more of a jerk).

I might just be overthinking this/being confused since Homestuck is sorta convoluted, and the majority of Homestuck fans (probably including me lol) have really bad reading comprehension skills.

@Cascadiana

thanks for clarifying!! I was worried I was being a huge jerk by using he/him pronouns

I mean let's follow this logic. Why does Hussie hate Tavros? It's not that all this time went into crafting a character, pulling him out of the kiln, and then going "oh this guy sucks." Tavros sucks by design.

If Tavros only had one personality trait, it would be indecision. He refuses to pull the trigger on anything and subsequently has to be dragged through most of the story. And the few times Tavros does manage to take initiative, any kind of negative consequence gets him to quit. Ironically enough it's Vriska who believes in Tavros the most; up until killing him.

What does "Tavros but the story doesn't ruin him" look like? For starters, pretty similar to what other characters are already doing. We could compare Tavros to John, who also has to be pushed into adventuring but is headstrong and less annoying. Or Karkat, who isn't a powerhouse either, except Karkat is willing to have difficult conversations and get his hands dirty. Hell, let's try comparing Tavros to Vriska. Tavros killing Grandpa is tangential to Vriska creating Bec. Except Vriska tries to take responsibility for her misdeeds instead of apologizing and running away (See also: why (Vriska) sucks).

Does Homestuck have too many characters? It certainly has too many characters for all of them to be cool people who get stuff done.

I think a few of these, fritz, are examples of characters who stopped doing stuff precisely because no longer doing stuff was their arc conclusion. Homestuck cares a lot about the relationship characters have with the stories they're in, and it acknowledges that sometimes the best outcome for a person is to just stop participating in the narrative that's been crafted for them - that's basically the comic's ending summed up!

Sollux in particular is a strong example of this. When we meet him, he's living in a giant honeycomb tower, with honeycomb computers scattered all around; the subtle symbolism is that Sollux himself is just a bee in a great big machine. When he gets honey all over him, he stares down at his stained hands in a callback to Dave looking at the blood on his own hands; implicitly, the honey IS his blood, and it's the blood of lowblooded trolls like him that oils the great big Alternian machine. This is made as explicit as possible when we finally hear about his ancestor, who has LITERALLY been hooked into the machine of Alternian conquest. When the evil empire decides that from birth his entire purpose is to be a cog in a machine, the only way Sollux really can be happy in the end is to check out. After hearing the moans of doomed ghosts his whole life, compelling him to become the guy who invents Sburb, he finally gets to be a ghost himself and just sit in silence with his girlfriend for an eternity or two.

Davesprite I won't claim to understand so intimately. I've never really been hugely invested in his arc as a separate person from Dave, but I totally get why many of those who think of themselves as more Strider-inclined might have been disappointed. Personally I think it's interesting that, as a sprite, he's kind of SUPPOSED to stop doing stuff when the Reckoning sounds and the game ends. I really believe when he was sitting there on the Battlefield with Jadesprite, he was recognising that his purpose was over and intending to die! So by being saved at the last minute, he's left purposeless not just as an ancillary Dave but also as an NPC without a quest to give. In that sense I really liked the conclusion that he became an aspect of Davepeta, who kind of combines two pointless, aimless characters into one fully-rounded person who understands that their purpose is simply being who they are.

Arquius, meanwhile, is a great contrast to the above, because from the beginning we're never really supposed to NOT think he's a gag character? like, he's just a sillier version of Equius that makes Dirk uncomfortable (mostly by reflecting Dirk's nastier qualities back at him). So I can't see how he qualifies as a character whose potential was shown and then thrown... but the fun thing about Arquius is that he's possibly the premier example - maybe after Gamzee - of a joke character who was ultimately revealed to be a lot MORE important than they seemed. Because the end of Arquiusprite's arc is becoming (part of) Lord English! So by the time Arquius is gone, you're not meant to be left thinking 'huh, where did Arquius go, what did he ultimately amount to' - you're being invited to look back at all the times Lord English appeared in the comic, all the dastardly deeds that big hulking menace got up to, and wonder: just how did Arquius' personality factor into that? What is the significance of a little bit of Lil Hal and a little bit of Equius ending up as the story's main villain?

@jakemorph i love this about homestuck because it's so fucking real. I got so tangled in narrative my whole life and a few years ago I let go of that and I've been so much happier. i love just living my little life

@JakeMorph

That was a surprisingly very profound look at Homestuck. I'm delighted I made this post so I could view these parts of the story differently. I hope saying that doesnt make me sound like I didnt understand homestuck at all btw! I got some of this stuff, but in reading never put characters entire arcs and stuff together since their so drawn out.

Of course :) everyone understands the story differently, and you're right that it's so long it can take many (partial - I've only ever finished the comic from beginning to end once 😔) rereads to even begin to form your own understanding on everything.

I apologise that I came on a little strong to begin with haha, in this fandom one finds a lot of people who don't actually seem interested in understanding the story at all, and there have already been a few threads made on here that follow in that same way of thinking. I love any opportunity I can get to intelligently discuss this kind of thing!