Serious Discord Conerns (18+ subjects mentioned due to context)

@forgotpassword Perfect! I'll just give you what I mean by a Sleeper then, in this context:

Someone who acts like they are doing things for the greater good, until they feel the time is right. Then, they use their power and influence to destroy and dismantle the systems they helped maintain, being efficient due to their knowledge of said systems and their elevated privileges.

@magicmirror walking back the statement doesn't mean it didn't happen and could be a sign of pressure from others or fear of being harassed ngl; so, I'm glad it's archived tbh & that mods are hopefully looking into it because it seems it did happen based on accounts at least one person in her server (that's what I'm told anyway based on at least one of these comments). Hard agree with everything you're saying here.

@autumnwyvern we need #freethenipple back ngl but not ran by racist TERFs. Hard agree with everything you said too.

@gamze ooooh that's absolutely devious! 🤯 You got me hyped to do Psycholonials voice over streams some day then! Hope that's not what's happening in the Homestuck server too in that case!

A lot of the people I've seen that send random people screamers or gore websites are the exact same people leading the brigade against marginalized people for making porn or doing anything else even slightly risque. It's never about the actual content, they just want to get rid of people by any means necessary.

i can't speak for the mod team as a whole Officially but the main issue was/is that general 1 is kind of terrible: most of the bad behavior is there, and it moves quickly (even with slow mode on) enough that it's harder to follow full discussions, or things come in from twitter. almost every other channel but gen 1 we have been able to nip anything in the bud and respond to the harassment, but whenever the artist would go in general 1, it would explode and be difficult to handle, especially since while we planned for some expected difficulties with the size of the server, this kind of harassment was harder to follow up on everything, particularly, again in gen 1 at peak times (remember, this is day 2 of the server).

people were communicating with the artist over time to try to figure out what to do in the meantime, and while I believe it might have been one of several options given (specifically, to TEMPORARILY leave while the moderation system was fixed so we would be able to respond faster without us unintentionally causing more issues, and that people wouldn't be able to harass them directly through the server in the meantime), the mods have continued to respond to all reported harassment against the artist when spotted/reported. we have not given up, we asked for some help/ways to avoid more explosions while everyone was in a tricky spot. the artist is still in the server, and they are still even active in the server. we have more mods now than before, and have a better system set up. we're still finalizing some of the new mod tools to make it smoother, but we have every intention of both continuing to smack down harassment and work with the artist to minimize them being attacked.

@sloth_army1 it really is all about control and silencing people they don't like, always has been. 100%.

@alexis what were all the options given to her and was she issued an apology I hope? It really seems like whatever one of y'all said really upset her and left a bad taste in her mouth and maybe wasn't worded the best if that really was the intent. I'm aware she's still in the server (thank goodness), but felt it was irrelevant to mention initially as the precedent being set was more concerning. I wasn't maliciously neglecting to mention it just to make that clear to everyone. I'm glad y'all are working on fixing the damage and making it better. 💜 I think she's owed an apology though for what it's worth by whomever upset her, doesn't gotta be public, but she deserves a direct apology for all this. Glad y'all are cracking down on it in response, thank you for your efforts in helping with this situation.

@rosebot, we're definitely concerned about the precedent (that's why we wanted the choice to ultimately be hers) but we had to present it as an option because we weren't sure if day 3 (today) peak times would just have the same thing happen over again. I don't feel comfortable saying everything, especially in a public forum, and regarding protecting a server member, but basically another option was what is currently happening, where she just isn't in gen 1. gen 2 is a good place. I do also want to reiterate that her leaving temporarily (and only if SHE wanted to) was also the most 'extreme' option given, she was always going to be welcomed back because we committed to fighting harassment, and had been responding to harassment the entire time. we also have to be careful because we don't want to put additional focus on her to make her more of a target. dealing with huge numbers of children is tricky, it sucks that she felt abandoned, and i know the internet has a particularly bad track record so i don't particularly blame her. we'll continue to show that we're serious about this.

I'm of the opinion that this server needs to have some kind of NSFW channel at least so I can talk more openly about other aspects of homestuck without lil kids screaming and crying because I mentioned tits and ass in the tits and ass comic.

Homestuck isn't even a comic for children but I have no room to judge as I was also a kid when I read it lol. It's just kind of annoying and this is unfortunate that these people feel like they have some kind of right to bully people in fandom spaces over shit that is not real. I don't draw porn but I also just don't care what someone else is drawing.

Another option I think would work is possibly making the discord just a second forum lol. I am in a few discords that are totally 100% "forum mode" where you can't type in a general chat at all and you must make a forum post instead in a thread. discussion still happens but most of the bad actors who would usually ruin discords hate forum mode bc they cannot harass people as easy or target them.

I also propose just getting rid of a gen chat entirely because honestly the gen chat is fucking awful and people can just talk about Homestuck and Homestuck related media.

I did notice some people did get their stuff nuked in the discord cause there were people who definitely shouldn't be in there with regarding to what they post and have done so I do kind of believe that a good amount of the moderation is decent it's just, the amount of stuff happening is a bit much and they're getting kinda swamped with tickets.

Regarding the person I think everyone here is talking about I got no idea what to think of, she seems mostly okay and a lot of the info ppl talk about is from a smear campaign that she was targeted of so it's hard to tell if there is anything directly concerning or bad

hi! i've been handling most of the interactions between the mod team and the user in question, and i'm the one who asked the big question if she was willing to wait it out for a bit.

the original plan was to just hold down the fort, ban people who harass her apropos of nothing, but that was obviously a failing measure. so we did have to think about what to do, but nobody actually wanted her gone. even asking her to lay low and step out temporarily wasn't done lightly. it's not an easy thing to ask, either as a mod or a friend. as a mod, she has done nothing wrong. as a friend, she is a fucking delight, and the server would be worse without her.

but it was a question i was asked to pose, in part because i think it'd be easier to hear it from a friend, and because it is an option. it is the extreme option. and then she said no, and i think she's right to have done so. truth be told, i wouldn't have been happy if she had said yes to leaving. it's a bullshit half-measure that would have emboldened the worst of the worst. while i can't speak for the entire mod team, i agree with her decision to hold that line. we have to be able to protect our most vulnerable users, and if that means saying "the discord server is not safe for trans women, who can draw the ire of a hateful mob by doing nothing at all", that's a totally acceptable move to me. she would be right to do so.

there are so many smoking fucking craters in this fandom where trans women used to be, and they were some of the most dedicated and talented people i've ever known. we cannot be doing that again and again, until none remain.

and since this is still a public forum, if anyone here wants to believe smear campaigns, know this: it is greatly overstated at best, and outright fabrications with intent to smear an alleged enemy at worst. i have been through the predator blender multiple times with my time in fandoms. i was 15 during homestuck's heyday and then i immediately got into the nascent danganronpa fandom. fandom isn't kind to children, and i live in the long shadow of that every single day. the things that people just got away with in the old days is shit that can't happen again. that does matter to me. and if you can't trust her word, trust mine.

i would trust you with my entire life victoria... im glad to hear that the mod team is standing behind her and standing STRONG against harassment!! i fcking hate puritanical bullshit

@victoria yeah I pretty much agree with what ur saying

One thing outside of this specific person that ppl are having an issue to me is like, it's a public discord you can't rly gatekeep the entry part but you can manage the space inside, so the issue I'm noticing some people are having is like, cause it's a new server and moderation is still being established it is extremely difficult to exactly, stop bad people from entering the discord so people are mad that there are bad people entering but instead of reporting and like, trying to create a better space for everyone it's just like, complaining x person was able to get in when no one knows what's going on and they're also swamped with managing a space that has like a couple thousand people interacting with it.
I think a lot of it is just people expecting a properly managed discord day one with a huge influx of people bad and good when no one knows who is who so it's just all a bit messy rn

While this does provide some needed context that paints it as a little more nuanced than it seemed... Again, like forgotpassword said, this clearly really hurt her, even tho it seems things are looking a bit more positive rn. I'm glad to hear she's still around in the server -- we didn't interact much, but she was a delight to be around.

I trust that the modteam truly only wants the best and had no ill-intent. I can also absolutely understand why it'd be upsetting to hear something like that. The intention might be noble, but to be told "maybe it's better you leave for a while" will always leave a sour taste in one's mouth. And for trans women, that is usually code for "don't come back", so.

Look, I can only imagine how overwhelming it is for y'all rn, and how frustrating it must feel to have people judging your job. But maybe we could try a few other things before telling trans women to wait outside? There are tools to impose a waiting time after you just joined a server, for instance. Hell, if general chat is, as of now, this inevitable force of transmisogyny that apparently can't be contained, shut it down for now? I recognize the other problems that could create, but like c'mon, asking her to leave shoulda been a last case scenario. No matter how many nice words one uses, it does send a very specific message that I am sure the modteam does not want to send.

It is, I guess... Understandable, yet ultimately disappointing.

I'll try to respond more eloquently manner when I'm less tired. I'll be resting soon so everyone behave on this post please. Real quick though I agree about the nsfw channel @elegantspinstress (it's a little awkward having to skirt around canon topics just because they're 18+ themed especially in beyond canon though the jokes there are kinda like blurring the lines due to the inherent adult nature of the subject matter lol). Also thank you @alexis and @victoria for your open honest responses and victoria for coming forward, though we are both strangers to one another, one of my transfem friends trusts your response so I trust in it too and want to respond properly later since I'm now privy to new context that changes things quite a lot and explains the post update.

Also yes people, please don't believe nonsensical smear campaigns, I was part of a discord one with my trans at-the-time partners, it was bad and actually co-opted by a real creep who was waiting for us the responsible adults to get banned so he could swoop in and prey on one of our youngster ex-friends who was too afraid to speak up for us because that friend group was run like a witch hunt where only yes-people were allowed which was a breeding ground for that guy's type because he knew how to play yes-men. I won't share any of their names from that incident but iykyk if you know me or my partner and ex-partner well enough. My TMA partner and I were the primary hate targets in that too while our TME partner was "cut more slack." Yes, I'm serious. This shit is so often motivated by transmisogyny.

i've mostly been talking about this situation in private but i want to echo the sentiments here. it's been genuinely haunting watching the pendulum swing from the early 2010s "let's uncritically make stridercest the most popular ship and not bother to check in on the adults using it to groom kids!" to the modern "yiffy's name is sexualizing minors"

what a fucking world. i appreciate that the mod team is taking this seriously, as that's a remarkably hard bar to hop over for some reason. i have hope that things will smooth out in time and this will be able to be looked back on as just one ultimately inconsequential slip up in a long line of fighting the good fight.

@chthonikix with you all the way and I still think she's owed an apology on top of it all, regardless of who said what. Friends especially should apologize to each other when stuff like this happens.

@elegantspinstress THIS.

I apologize if I came of as a bit puritan in my previous statement, I am very vocal about these kinds of people that are against these types of fictional content, if anything I'm more mad at the people who made up that rule, as I think adding in a channel specifically for that content would have been better rather than banning it alright for the sake of "appeasing some fans". It was just a slip-up in my mind. Because seriously, Homestuck has some fucked up shit in there, yet some of these people think fanworks are the issue.

I really want to make a rant video like this someday.